We Are Women
Interviews with four women about the complexity of womanhood and overcoming stereotypes and sexualization
Written by Lily Mihelich, Culture Staff Writer
To better understand how women have used personal experiences and goals to mitigate gender subjugation across various institutions and in the workforce, I interviewed four driven women from versatile academic and career backgrounds. I asked them questions regarding their occupations, personal motivations, overcoming sexualization and relationships with their bodies. Each woman discussed how aspects of their identities, such as race, sexual orientation and beliefs inevitably conflicted with female stereotypes throughout their life. They all were adamant about fueling growth, change and perseverance in cultural institutions that perpetuate patriarchal influences, specifically in schools, businesses, the fashion industry and academic settings.
I interviewed Adrienne, a bar owner and artist training to become a sports pilot, Sarah K, a UW-Madison sophomore studying journalism and strategic communications and working as a student advisor, Sarah S, a senior at the University of Cincinnati who is signed to several modeling agencies and Gracie, a UW-Madison political science and gender and women’s studies student who is involved in government initiatives and works as the head of Diversity and Inclusion for her sorority. These four women immensely intensified my admiration for womanhood. They made clear that despite institutions often neglecting underrepresented identities, women will work by all means to maintain inclusivity and opportunities for themselves and their peers. Womanhood is not dependent on biological sex or certain traits; it is a complex, diverse and powerful experience.
This article has been edited for clarity and brevity.
Are there any aspects of your identity you feel come in conflict with stereotypical expectations of women in institutions, or society in general?
Adrienne: Yes. Bar owning is a very male-dominated field, however, it's changing rapidly. I am somebody who sees a door and wants to push out of it. I am supremely challenged by the idea that people think I can't do something.
Sarah K: Yes. The first thing that came to mind for me is that I'm not straight, and I grew up in a very conservative town and was sent to a Christian school from kindergarten to 12th grade, where they aren't very nice about that, so that part of my identity is very important.
Sarah S: Yes, especially with modeling and going into the corporate world as a Black woman, the hair expectations are just so wild, and sometimes certain businesses have a certain standard of how they want Black hair. Going into corporate, this has been a concern of mine. Black women in this country are sometimes put at the bottom of the barrel––the goalpost is always moving. I constantly feel like I need to be achieving, or constantly doing five things at once. This plays a factor in the things that I do in my career and in my predominantly white sorority.
Gracie: Yes, I go into political science classes and am one of the only girls. In student government spaces, I feel so different because I am in a sorority. I feel a lot of conflict regarding being the only gay person or "not gay enough" in many settings.
When did you realize that being sexualized as a woman was possible?
Adrienne: I was 5 years old.
Sarah K: I think the first time I got sexualized was in grade school when I was 9 or 10. My class was evenly split, five girls and five boys. The guys would sexualize all of the girls. It was so awful, but bringing it up to teachers and having them say, "Oh, they're just flirting with you," or, "They're just boys being boys," made me realize [sexualization] exists and there's not anything I can do about it.
Sarah S: In seventh and eighth grade, I was probably the first person out of all of my friends to get a cupped bra. I wasn't used to wearing bras––I felt a lot more exposed. I remember the principal telling me I needed to cover up my shoulders and that my bra strap was showing. I always have the fear of being sexualized because I see it with some other models. I have no problem with lingerie shoots, but I have an issue with the male photographers that prey on younger models. It is a huge issue that I’m very careful about, and that has opened my eyes to a whole new way of sexualizing women, especially in the modeling industry.
Gracie: I have always been very feminine, so I think discovering femininity in this way has always been integral in my family structure. In coming out, the general response I got from my mom aligned with the idea that I would still be loved as long as I had feminine traits. This has been something I often think about; do I present how I present because I like that, or to be a palatable, straight adjacent person?
How did sexualization affect you mentally or emotionally?
Adrienne: It was an early awakening. I put it away for a long time.
Sarah K: I think it kind of played into how I interact with people and see myself, the most. When I was younger, I felt like an object a guy could use. I've kind of grown past that, it took a lot to work past that mentally, but in the past, I felt like it was very objectifying.
Sarah S: I would say to be in the modeling industry, you have to have a good mental headspace. I have kind of resorted to blocking it out and knowing the real reasons why I want to be in this industry. Modeling is a creative passion of mine.
Gracie: Unfortunately being gay has always been a point of conflict, and my idea is now just coming around, the idea of appearing more masculine is so daunting to me. And it does terrify me to embrace or reject femininity and womanhood and the male gaze, even though that isn't something I actively want in my life.
Has your mentality surrounding sexuality evolved since then, or throughout your life?
Adrienne: Yes. Now, I feel more confident and comfortable. I'm not seen as sexualized like when I was younger. I can get down to business. I hope that women of your age understand your supreme power and that boys understand theirs, and we end up giving it to each other. Supreme power means being true to yourself and giving power to the world. What you bring to the table. When people are ignorant, they don't value this.
Sarah K: I think it has, just because I was insecure when I was younger because of it. Now, I know it exists, and so I know how to protect myself from those situations. I can go about and not be as worried because I'm more aware of how to counter it if it does happen.
Sarah S: I would say for the most part I block it out now because I know my intentions with modeling. My perception is that it is art, and I don't want people to think my stuff is just to get attention. At the end of the day, you are making the designer money. It's not necessarily just posing for likes, there is an end goal. I work with people who have my best interests in mind.
Gracie: Yes, When I first came out, so much of my focus was showing that my love was the same as other people, but as I have had time, I’ve come to recognize that my love and my presentation are different than a straight person.
How has your relationship with your body or identity changed as you've grown older in a professional setting?
Adrienne: I'm fortunate to have a strong, capable body. I push to amazing limits, and in getting older, my body is becoming stronger. I'm noticing things changing in my brain capacity, the physical changes I will accept with grace. I don't live my life looking through other people's eyes. When I was younger, maybe I was affected. I've always had a high metabolism, I don't have issues with that. I am going through menopause, my body goes through many bodily changes and it’s fascinating.
Sarah K: I didn't use to care about it or notice it, and then, as I grew older and got more aware of what people think about me, I got more self-aware. I'm more confident in my body now because I wear whatever I want and I don't think too much about it. But if I go out with my friends or something, I am aware of how I look next to them.
Sarah S: Since starting college and entering my 20s, I have a better relationship with my body. In middle school and high school, puberty and comparing myself to other girls happened. Once I realized I wanted to get into modeling, I was like, “I'm going to need a good relationship with my body.” It is finding that silver lining and thinking, “look at all of the amazing things your body can do?” I can type, carry stuff and drive, so once I started valuing that, there's nothing to complain about because I can do so much.
Gracie: Growing up, I got my period very young, I was always the tall kid, and this was something I hated about myself. I started restricting what I ate at a young age, I didn't want to be seen as a huge monstrous person. I am much healthier with my eating habits but still deal with thoughts about masking being tall by being thin.
“I don’t live my life looking through other people’s eyes.”
Do you think clothing has a large impact on how people treat you in the workplace, academic settings, etc?
Adrienne: That's a man's question; people have so much fun with clothing. Some days I'm torn up with paints; I'm not a slave to fashion. Clothing is just a way of expression. Women who want to wear skimpy clothes: if that's what you feel good in, wear it. Clothing is not an invitation. I wear what I want to wear when I want to wear it.
Sarah K: I think I've almost seen it in my personal life. Growing up, I was a big leggings girl. I would wear cheetah print leggings and because I was younger, the teachers would almost, even with shorts, make comments and make me measure my shorts, which just made me feel like they were looking at my body more.
Sarah S: Absolutely. Even with my internships, there were differences on days I would wear a conservative black leather dress, compared to a sweater dress or suit. With modeling, photographers have done all types of shoots, so I feel like I am respected. In corporate America, it is the opposite, but when photographers and companies see you showing more skin, it shows that you are confident and not scared to model in a vulnerable state.
Gracie: I think clothing and presentation are super important for people's identities. In queer spaces, this is additionally important.
How does this make you feel?
Adrienne: Well, I've gotten to a point where if I need a suit to talk to you, I can't be bothered with your perspective.
Sarah K: I think it makes me feel insecure almost. Am I doing something wrong? Is there something wrong with my outfit? I don't want to be thought of in a sexual way. I'm just me.
Sarah S: At least in the way I’ve been treated, you can feel an energy shift––the way people talk to you. I always pay attention to their eye contact and where it would go in conversations, but you know, eyes say a lot. It's not always just about what people say; it's about body language.
Gracie: I do feel a dichotomy of not fitting into spaces, not feeling feminine enough or too feminine.
How do you hope to facilitate positive change in the environments you work in?
Adrienne: To facilitate change, I hire more women. I just had this talk with a male employee. He didn't mean anything harmful but he said something inappropriate, and so we had a talk. Part of the change is treating people with respect. I try to have personal engagements when I have something to say. Once I get my flying certificate, young people will look at me. I want young women to know they can do what they want to do if they put their minds to it. In my role, even though there aren't a lot of female bar owners, I affect them. That's what powers me. I feel like I am affecting, encouraging and supporting other women to do what we want to do. We can do everything men can do, if not better.
Sarah K: When students come into my job, I think accepting students for who they are is a good way to [facilitate change]. I think that being in gender and women's studies has taught me a lot about identities I'm not aware of. It has made me very aware of the different stereotypes they face versus what I face as a woman. I think that has helped to make it a more inclusive environment. I think just accepting people for who they are and trying to create a positive environment is a very good first step. But it kind of takes that awareness from the beginning, you know?
Sarah S: With modeling, showing up with what I'm given is an unspoken statement in itself. I think that is what is especially going to help women of color in this industry. I like to think each time I show up on set wearing a protective style and have a hair stylist be forced to work with my hair texture, and the same with makeup artists, I am making a good step in having inclusivity behind the scenes, but also in the fashion industry.
Gracie: My biggest goal in spaces that I am in right now is to contribute feminine, queer representation. We exist and are out there. I hope to eliminate binaries of what a straight or gay person looks like. When I came out super publicly to different sororities through educational talks, several people came out to me as a result. If I were to drop dead, I would be satisfied with this.
Do you think institutions such as schools and corporate settings value individuality and gender inclusivity?
Adrienne: We've been a capitalist patriarch for the last century, we have a lot more women in power today, though.
Sarah K: I think it's harder for bigger corporations to be inclusive, it almost feels like they're being required to push out those messages. You'll see a big company being like, this is our gender-inclusive section. Do you want to do that? Or are you being told to do that? My past schooling institutions didn't care. I don't know much about UW-Madison as an institution for care. I think they’re trying but I'm not sure how genuine this is, and for larger institutions in general.
Sarah S: I think a lot of companies are working toward that. I don't know if you just saw it, but the new Miss Universe owner is a transgender woman, which is so amazing. This is a huge step in the right direction. My high school was a good example of institutions that weren't inclusive of identities; teachers weren't allowed to discuss LGBTQIA+ matters.
Gracie: I think our entire legal system needs a whole reboot. [We need] way more women, way more queer people and way more people of color in those spaces. I feel like it has been the same white, rich voice.
How do you think this can be done better?
Adrienne: For example, I signed up to take a flight to Denali with my best friend Katie. This lady walked by the plane and my best friend Katie said, "That can't be our pilot." Why do we think that? Because she's a woman she can't fly our airplane? I thought, "If she can do it, I can do it." Representation matters.
Sarah K: Put people in charge that understand different identities. You can't cater products for Black women unless you have a Black woman making that product. Same with characters in books and movies that are transgender. They're not going to have the same perspective unless you put a literal transgender person in control of making that product or making that character.
Sarah S: Make spaces for women and women of color to meet and be able to talk to one another about their experiences in white environments. Access does not always equal inclusion. Women of color, or women involved, aren't always seen and heard in these industries and spaces. Talking about these issues would be so important. I don't know why we are consistently left out of the discussion, but seeing institutions that care about their students and have these women's centers and provide resources for sexual and reproductive care and making spaces where we feel our needs are being met is necessary.
Gracie: What is important, is not only new classes including gender, queer and other types of representation but having senior staff level representation. Seeing somebody who has already done a position with these backgrounds and having people you can look up to is crucial.
Does being a woman largely impact your everyday life?
Adrienne: When I'm at work I try to project confidence. Women operate for the community and to help their neighbors, and I got into owning a bar because this is something we want to do. I do the jobs nobody else wants to do, being the owner isn't sitting on a throne, I'm in the trenches with my staff when they need me. I try to project strength.
Sarah K: I think it did when I was younger because of the stark differences between women and men in my grade school and high school experience; however, I think since coming to college, it has affected me less because a lot of my friends are nonbinary. Now, it's like we're all humans. That's all that matters. I think it still affects me in structural factors like the sexualization we talked about.
Sarah S: We have to have more drive because we are women. It doesn't even matter what we look like because we are women, and we are automatically at the bottom of the pedestal. We are not admired and valued as much as our male coworkers. We need extra ambition and drive in pursuit of our career goals for sure.
Gracie: Being a woman impacts my life and everything that I do. I’m so glad that God or fate or whatever made me a woman. I’m so glad womanhood is part of my identity. I feel such a sense of community in my womanhood, it is a privilege to be a part of such a strong group.